Who's Controlling You, with David Icke, by Diane M. Cooper

David Icke is one of the world's most controversial lecturers. He travels the globe exposing secret societies such as the Illuminati and the Bilderberg Group, and global manipulations to enslave the minds of humanity. The astounding information on his website (DavidIcke.com) and in his many books will "rock your world."

Although David has been outspoken concerning the global manipulation of our world, in this Spirit of Ma'at exclusive interview we explore David's ideas on solutions rather than causes.

We hope that you enjoy it.

There are two things you need if you are to uncover and communicate what is really happening in the world. One is to be free of any dogmatic belief system. The second is not to give a damn what people think and say about you, or, at least, not to let that influence your decisions.
David Icke — Children of the Matrix

Diane: How can we make the radical changes needed to transform the subterfuge occurring on the planet at this time?

David: One of the big keys is for people to start being guided by their intuition instead of being imprisoned by their minds.

What changed my life, to be honest — and led me on this journey — was a decision I made in the late 1980s. I said to myself, if ever my intuition and my mind were in conflict again, that I was always going to follow my intuition.

At that time I was a television presenter and spokesperson for the British Green Party. I was in the three-dimensional, conventional world. But I felt strangely not part of it.

Once I started to follow my intuition, however, rather than my conditioned mind, my life changed dramatically. When I was faced with a situation where there was conflict between the two, I went with the intuition.

Eventually, there came a point in time when my mind began to observe that even though following my intuition brought me to some very challenging situations, when all had worked its way though I could see why I had to go through them.

What happens to many people is that at the point where the mind is screaming at the intuition, "See, I told you so, I told you you'd be in a mess if you didn't listen to me," they pull out of the intuition and start going with the mind again.

But if you stick with it, eventually you reach the point where your mind and intuition come into sync, and what you feel and what you think become the same thing. The war that goes on between the two comes to an end.

Then, at the level of intuition, you look through the same eyes and hear through the same ears. And although you still get the same crap coming toward you from the media, what you see intuitively and what you make of it completely change from what they were before.

Our Spirit observes from the outside of this world. Our minds observe from within it. That's why we get caught in the illusion and see the movie and think, Yes, it makes perfect sense — Osama Bin Laudin caused September 11. But your Spirit, which is not subject to the illusion, is looking from without, and it can tell you intuitively that the story we're being told about September 11 is complete nonsense. We can see this intuitively even before we do the detailed research that proves it.

Your intuition comes from a level of Infinite Consciousness — not in this world, not caught in this illusion but observing from outside this very narrow frequency range we call our reality.

Diane: So how do you suggest that we deal with our overprogrammed minds?

David: There is nothing inherently wrong with the mind. The problem is that when the mind gets its hands on the steering wheel, it grips so tight that its knuckles turn white, and your Spirit is at the back of the bus unable to move or have any part in the decision-making process.

The mind is there because it's supposed to be there — but it has to be in balance with the rest of our infinite, multidimensional self.

When your intuition tells you something is not right, then you can use your intellect to actually prove what your intution is telling you.

That's how I work — my intuition leads me into situations, and then my mind fills in the detail with this-world research.

It's about using the mind in concert and balance with the Spirit. When you get that balance together, it can be very powerful for uncovering what is actually going on.

I follow my intuition, and it leads me to three-dimensional information in the most extraordinary, synchronistic ways.

I find it's like a muscle. If you don't use a muscle, it wastes away. If you don't use your intuition, it just goes to sleep. Once you start using it and you start going with it, it wakes up and gets stronger. Then the mind and the heart can work in harmony — with the most incredible results.

Diane: We could talk about the information contained in your lectures and on your website for days, I'm sure. The various ways in which you see the mass consciousness being manipulated. But I'm most interested in asking you what you see as a solution to this manipulation.

David: Well, there are two ways of looking at a problem and trying to address it.

One way is to find a solution. But personally I don't think that's the best course of action.

The second way is to remove the cause. I believe that's the best way of solving a problem.

We have been conditioned from cradle to grave to believe that the "movies" with which we are presented — the perceptions put in front of us by the media and officials in power — are a true picture of reality.

If we go on believing in these movies — believing what our eyes and ears tell us instead of what our hearts and intuition tell us — then we are going to be living in a global fascist state in the not-too-distant future. In fact, for all intents and purposes, in America it has already come to that. If people just take a deep breath and look at their country again, they will see what I mean, especially since September 11.

We can talk about secret societies, the Bilderberg Group,[1] and the manipulation through September 11, and all that stuff — but all of it comes under the heading of "manipulation of our reality."

Even with tanks in the street and soldiers at the door, the relatively few people at the top of the pyramid can't control the remaining billions. You can control some people that way, but you can't do it with everyone. If you're going to take control of the people of the world, you've got to take control of their minds and perceptions, their sense of reality. That's how it's done. It can't be accomplished any other way.

We are living a false reality, and that is what the manipulation of our reality is founded upon. So in removing the cause of the problem, what we have to do — not just as a human race, but as individual aspects of All That Exists — is to take back the control of our minds. We have to take back control of our perceptions and of our reality.

That means questioning everything we are told. It means asking "Who benefits?" from our believing what we are told to believe. When you ask who benefits from the official version of September 11, or any other big event in the so-called news, the answer is, it benefits anyone who wants to centralize power and remove more of our basic freedoms.

Diane: Many people coming from a spiritual perspective have said, "All this stuff David Icke talks about is negative and full of fear, and he shouldn't talk so much about this."

David: Yes, well I believe they are missing a fundamental truth: Everything is an expression of everything else. Therefore, what is happening in three-dimensional reality — which can be given names, dates, places, and details of that kind — is merely an external expression of the inner state of humanity in its various forms.

On one level, you have those who are orchestrating the manipulation of our reality. They are expressing their state of being through physical events like September 11 and the Afghanistan War and what have you.

But the vast majority of people on this planet are also creating and allowing to be created those external events by their own internal state of being. They are buying the illusion that they are being sold.

So if we are going to change the outer, we can't just symbolically run up to the movie screen and start to shout at it and tell the movie screen to change the movie. We have to go to the back of the cinema and change the movie reel on the projector.

So, again, in terms of solutions, I say humanity must take its power back — the power to come to its own conclusions, the power to take back its thinking processes. And I would also say it needs to re-understand that there is a fantastic difference between what we think and what we feel.

Diane: Please elaborate on this a bit more for me.

David: Certainly. If we "think" the world, then we are going to ignite our left-brain through the information that comes through the ears and the eyes.

The Illuminati[2] want us to "think" the world, because they can overwhelmingly control the information we use to come to "thinking" conclusions.

If we're going to free ourselves from this illusion that's manufactured day after day, we need to stop "thinking" the world and start "feeling" it — feeling it from the level of intuition. Never mind what I think about a situation; but what do I feel about a situation?

Diane: But even though I and many others "know" we are being lied to by the media, I think many of us draw back into ourselves saying it's too big a problem to handle "out there." Some people become afraid when confronted with the external picture of what is going on in the world at the level of government, and believe they have to work on themselves to heal the external picture.

David: Well, the thing is, if people say, "I can't handle what's happening externally so I'll try to handle what's going on inside," they are missing the fundamental truth. What's going on inside is being expressed as an external reality. You know, it's chicken and egg. One is a reflection of the other.

So if a person says this knowledge produces fear, then they are making a statement about themselves.

It does take me aback a little when I see people around the so-called new-age arena constantly talking about letting go of fear, but every time something challenging comes up, the horizon is full of clouds of dust and disappearing backsides.

Love is not a weakness — it is a power!

We are Multidimensional, Infinite Consciousness. At that level there is not even a "we," but one gigantic "I." What is there to fear? What is there to run away from?

Fear is part of the illusion. Don't let anyone kid themselves that they are freeing themselves from the illusion if they are still consumed and directed by fear!

If the Illuminati didn't exist, then we would have to invent them. Humanity is being given an experience here of the consequences of giving our power away. This is what happens when we give our power away and look to others to tell us what to think and feel.

From this perspective, the Illuminati are having an experience of what happens when you become consumed with the need to have power over others.

This is just a game. We all live forever! The Illuminati are the people they are controlling. The people they are controlling are the Illuminati. At the highest level we are all one consciousness. We are just different expressions of that consciousness having a physical experience at this time.

You have a choice. You can see information and say, "Hey that frightens me" or you can say, "That empowers me, I'm more aware now. Now I know the technique they are using and they aren't going to con me anymore."

Different people can see the same information in fear or as a celebration of their greater awareness. The difference is not the information, it's the state of being of the person who's receiving it.

So I say, if you're frightened by this, then ask yourself why you're frightened. Ask yourself how you can be frightened and still consider yourself spiritually aware and part of Everything That Exists. Tell me why Everything That Exists is frightened of this situation. It can't be. It isn't.

One of the greatest powers of Love is that it is without fear.

Love will always do what it believes to be Right, and not necessarily what it believes to be right for itself in the moment.

So if you're in fear about this, what is it about You that you need to work on? What is there to fear about being Everything and living forever? Nothing. The only time fear comes in is when we talk about knowing it, but we don't live it.

When we look the Illuminati in the face and say, I fear those people, what we're actually saying in the Big Picture is, "I fear myself." Because the Illuminati are an expression of Infinity in a certain state of being. I don't fear myself. So why should I fear the people running the scam?

Diane: So I'm compelled to ask, why do you spend so much time talking about the names, dates, and material world facts rather than emphasizing this message?

David: Well, I'll tell you what I've observed over the years — I didn't realize this was happening until I looked back and analyzed it.

When I do a talk, about the first two thirds or three quarters is left-brain. It's names, dates, places, techniques of manipulation; this is what's happening, this is the agenda, et cetera.

The final part is the spiritual aspect of it — that it is all a game, that we are all one consciousness — that we are all geniuses who've forgotten this about ourselves, and have been manipulated to believe we are all ordinary men in the street because we are controllable that way.

Yes, many people remark, "What you say is so negative!" But if those people could see and feel the energy and see the faces of the people that leave my lectures at the end, they would not say this. People go out on a real high, knowing they can be in control of their own lives, and all they have to do is take their own power back.

Now, if I did those things the other way around — if I started with the spirituality and then did the 3-dimensional stuff last, there would be a completely different reaction. Why? Because the left brain is the wall — it's the shield, the fence that keeps our intuitive and multidimensional self out of the equation.

Also, not all of my audiences come from a spiritual viewpoint. There are people from all different religions, races, and ages. People come because they are interested in knowing what is really going on in the world. If I started with the spiritual stuff a lot of them would say, "What the bloody heck is this, he's challenging my religion," or what have you. A lot of them would probably leave.

But because I work on the left-brain information first, there comes a point where the energy in the room just flips. It's when the collective left brain says, "Okay you've convinced me, there's something here, this is making too much sense."

I tell you, once the left brain has put its hands up, then you can start talking to the Spirit. Then the block on having Spirit enter into the decision-making and perception process at the incarnate level gets out of the way.

What the Illuminati do is to avoid triggering and activating the Spirit. That's why they "dumb down" everything. That's why they ridicule scientific and spiritual information that would give people another take on life. They concentrate totally on talking to the intellect, on talking to the so-called rational mind. So if we are going to introduce another point of view, we have to talk to the so-called rational mind first, so it will relax and let us speak to the Spirit.

So that's what I do. It's my contribution to the tapestry of change. It's not the only way of doing it, of course.

I heard a phrase once, "If there were only one way of doing things, there would only need to be one person." So we all have our unique contribution to make. No one is right, and no one is wrong. We are just different.

Diane: What, in your opinion, would change our world more than anything else?

David: I say this very simply: When people start doing what they believe to be Right, instead of what they believe is right for them in the moment. Then this world will change.

The challenge people will face in doing that is overcoming the fear and the "Oh, my goodness, what will happen to me?"

A good example comes from my own research. I believe there are people in United Airlines and American Airlines and within the U.S. government and within the U.S. military who know that September 11 was an inside job, orchestrated within the borders of the United States by the shadowy groups that control the United States administration. But these people are not coming out with it publicly because they are thinking of the consequences for themselves. I understand that.

But it's a classic example that by doing what they think is right for themselves in the moment, and not what they believe to be Right, they are helping to perpetuate this illusion, the fairytale we're being told about that day.

I'm writing a book at the moment exposing the nonsense of September 11. I'm doing it in intellectual detail for the mass audience, because if people can see the official story is provably transparent nonsense, then something will happen at a very deep level for those people.

If people begin to realize that their government is telling them a complete lie about this massively horrific event, then people will start asking what else is not true. Then the left-brain shield will start to break down, and people will become more and more open to things they once were closed to.

This is why spiritual and conspiratorial, street-wise knowledge are not exclusive of each other. They are expressions of each other. They are both aspects of the same goal, which is to give people the opportunity to see that they are being sold a cradle-to-grave illusion.

The spiritual and the street-wise have to come together. And the New Age has to get off the ceiling and realize that it's time to stop going around and around the airport in a holding pattern and actually come in to land.

Because we have come into this illusion in order to change it! Not to kid ourselves that we need to escape from it.

The Illuminati are delighted if they can divide the spiritual knowledge from the conspiratorial knowledge. Because they know that without the spiritual knowledge we're never going to make a change. Therefore, keeping the two apart is vital to preventing this change.

What I'm trying to do here is to bring the two together.

So I say, "Here, left brain. Here's all the names, dates, places, and connections and historical perspective, as much as I can access at this moment, and here's how the Bushes are connected to Bin Ladin, etc., here's how they planned to build a pipeline through Afghanistan but couldn't while the Taliban was there."

And then I say, "Right brain, here's all the spiritual knowledge they are keeping from you."

You are not an ordinary man in the street.

You are Infinity having a physical experience.

You create your own reality. When you do that consciously, you can create the reality you want. At the moment, you are creating your reality, but you're doing it by allowing your sense of reality to be externally programmed. You can disconnect from that and you can consciously create what you want. Because you are everything!

In closing, here is a quote I found today.

Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it.

To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give moral cowards an excuse to not think at all.

—Michael Rivero[3]

Diane: Thank you David.

For books, articles, and contact information about David Icke and a schedule of his 2002 lectures, please visit DavidIcke.com.